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	<title>Comments on: Somebody Help Joe Romm</title>
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	<description>where nature and culture meet</description>
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		<title>By: Hank Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-699</guid>
		<description>You pointed to CEJournal, where in a now-closed thread Tom Yulsman posted on March 31, 2009:

&quot;... if you are trying to argue that Joe’s approach is correct simply because he has many more page views than Nordhaus, then by that logic the National Enquirer’s approach is correct because it has more readers than, say, the New York Review of Books.&quot;

Well, yeah.  If you&#039;re trying to reach the people whose votes will add up, you have to reach them with what they read and recognize as resembling sincerity.

As in -- a sincere decent person controls himself as long as he can, is polite, tolerates being pushed around and crapped on, until one day he just won&#039;t take it any more --- and whups some ass.

It&#039;s exactly this kind of behavior that is _simulated_ so effectively by demagogues.  This kind of behavior from the PR industry works _very_ well.

Joe Romm?  Well, who else have we got who&#039;s filling this behavioral profile --- who acts the way the people who read the Enquirer think a really sincere person will act when he loses it and starts yelling?

I say it&#039;s theater, and I say pass the popcorn and give Joe Romm credit -- around the back at the stage door after the performance -- and remind him that it&#039;s _awful_ hard to use science as a basis for outrage.

See, the people on the other side, their take is entirely political.
They hear ANYTHING about this and they think politics, control, lies.  Vaccination? Phonics? no antibiotics for a sore throat?  No spray for the fleas? --- remember it&#039;s taken a generation or two to get past the folks who were happy to have lead additives they could buy in the auto store to put the lead back in their gasoline.

And it took catalytic converters, something that the lead would screw up, to make them give up believing they _needed_ that lead, and to heck with a few IQ points.  Of course they fell for the Ethyl Corp.&#039;s full page ads in Scientific American (remember those?  Pictures of the three feet of grass beside the asphalt and the reassurance the lead only got that far before it got trapped in the dirt, so don&#039;t ban it ....).  Scientific American ran those.  Probably National Geographic did too.

Without someone emoting &quot;sincerely&quot; a lot of people just won&#039;t believe the sober worried talkative guy trying to explain the science.

I don&#039;t like it.  I wish there were some better way.

But dagnabbit, if you want to reach the people who read the kind of stuff people read, you have to write the kind of stuff they read.

Joe does.

If only he didn&#039;t enjoy it so.  But where is anyone willing to replace him?  It&#039;s a nasty job.

Someone has to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You pointed to CEJournal, where in a now-closed thread Tom Yulsman posted on March 31, 2009:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; if you are trying to argue that Joe’s approach is correct simply because he has many more page views than Nordhaus, then by that logic the National Enquirer’s approach is correct because it has more readers than, say, the New York Review of Books.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, yeah.  If you&#8217;re trying to reach the people whose votes will add up, you have to reach them with what they read and recognize as resembling sincerity.</p>
<p>As in &#8212; a sincere decent person controls himself as long as he can, is polite, tolerates being pushed around and crapped on, until one day he just won&#8217;t take it any more &#8212; and whups some ass.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s exactly this kind of behavior that is _simulated_ so effectively by demagogues.  This kind of behavior from the PR industry works _very_ well.</p>
<p>Joe Romm?  Well, who else have we got who&#8217;s filling this behavioral profile &#8212; who acts the way the people who read the Enquirer think a really sincere person will act when he loses it and starts yelling?</p>
<p>I say it&#8217;s theater, and I say pass the popcorn and give Joe Romm credit &#8212; around the back at the stage door after the performance &#8212; and remind him that it&#8217;s _awful_ hard to use science as a basis for outrage.</p>
<p>See, the people on the other side, their take is entirely political.<br />
They hear ANYTHING about this and they think politics, control, lies.  Vaccination? Phonics? no antibiotics for a sore throat?  No spray for the fleas? &#8212; remember it&#8217;s taken a generation or two to get past the folks who were happy to have lead additives they could buy in the auto store to put the lead back in their gasoline.</p>
<p>And it took catalytic converters, something that the lead would screw up, to make them give up believing they _needed_ that lead, and to heck with a few IQ points.  Of course they fell for the Ethyl Corp.&#8217;s full page ads in Scientific American (remember those?  Pictures of the three feet of grass beside the asphalt and the reassurance the lead only got that far before it got trapped in the dirt, so don&#8217;t ban it &#8230;.).  Scientific American ran those.  Probably National Geographic did too.</p>
<p>Without someone emoting &#8220;sincerely&#8221; a lot of people just won&#8217;t believe the sober worried talkative guy trying to explain the science.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like it.  I wish there were some better way.</p>
<p>But dagnabbit, if you want to reach the people who read the kind of stuff people read, you have to write the kind of stuff they read.</p>
<p>Joe does.</p>
<p>If only he didn&#8217;t enjoy it so.  But where is anyone willing to replace him?  It&#8217;s a nasty job.</p>
<p>Someone has to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alaskan Seal</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-489</link>
		<dc:creator>Alaskan Seal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-489</guid>
		<description>Soros is spending a lot of money on Joseph Romm.  If soros can ramp up fear, we can see him profit on the rise of oil futures.
3,000 years ago we had asstrologers and sorcerors that claimed to predict and forcast.  They also got violent when ignored.
Romm offers his &quot;readings&quot; as power point presentatins of future climate reports.  They can&#039;t be proven false because they are out there 30 years.  He wants people punished if they do not react.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Soros is spending a lot of money on Joseph Romm.  If soros can ramp up fear, we can see him profit on the rise of oil futures.<br />
3,000 years ago we had asstrologers and sorcerors that claimed to predict and forcast.  They also got violent when ignored.<br />
Romm offers his &#8220;readings&#8221; as power point presentatins of future climate reports.  They can&#8217;t be proven false because they are out there 30 years.  He wants people punished if they do not react.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-486</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-486</guid>
		<description>I really wish Joe Romm could do something about global warming before we freeze to death.  It was 32 degrees and snowing like crazy here in Dickinson, North Dakota this morning (no jokes about my home state please).  Yes, it&#039;s cold here in the winter, but this is absolutely bizarre for the 6th of June.  Today&#039;s normal high is 73 degrees.


I hope Joe&#039;s campaign to stop global warming kicks in soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really wish Joe Romm could do something about global warming before we freeze to death.  It was 32 degrees and snowing like crazy here in Dickinson, North Dakota this morning (no jokes about my home state please).  Yes, it&#8217;s cold here in the winter, but this is absolutely bizarre for the 6th of June.  Today&#8217;s normal high is 73 degrees.</p>
<p>I hope Joe&#8217;s campaign to stop global warming kicks in soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Kloor</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-483</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Kloor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-483</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true that my criticism of Romm stems largely from the way he criticizes people he disagrees with--people who share his concerns about climate change, by the way (contrary to what he&#039;d have you believe). If Romm engaged their views in a civil fashion, instead engaging in character attacks, I wouldn&#039;t be taking him to task the way I have. 

On this note, I&#039;m starting to wonder if Romm&#039;s reliance on ad hominem, guilt-by-association tactics is revealing of more than Romm&#039;s nature.  After all, I have to think that someone who had confidence in his own arguments wouldn&#039;t sling so much mud.

As for my own views on S &amp; N, in a broad sense I think they offer a constructive critique of contemporary environmentalism.  I have thought this since they crashed the party with their &quot;Death of Environmentalism&quot; essay. That doesn&#039;t mean I necessarily agree with everything they say. But I respect and welcome their perspective.  I don&#039;t take kindly to anyone--on the right or left--that tries to stifle other voices in a debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true that my criticism of Romm stems largely from the way he criticizes people he disagrees with&#8211;people who share his concerns about climate change, by the way (contrary to what he&#8217;d have you believe). If Romm engaged their views in a civil fashion, instead engaging in character attacks, I wouldn&#8217;t be taking him to task the way I have. </p>
<p>On this note, I&#8217;m starting to wonder if Romm&#8217;s reliance on ad hominem, guilt-by-association tactics is revealing of more than Romm&#8217;s nature.  After all, I have to think that someone who had confidence in his own arguments wouldn&#8217;t sling so much mud.</p>
<p>As for my own views on S &amp; N, in a broad sense I think they offer a constructive critique of contemporary environmentalism.  I have thought this since they crashed the party with their &#8220;Death of Environmentalism&#8221; essay. That doesn&#8217;t mean I necessarily agree with everything they say. But I respect and welcome their perspective.  I don&#8217;t take kindly to anyone&#8211;on the right or left&#8211;that tries to stifle other voices in a debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-482</guid>
		<description>Shellenberger and Nordhaus are charter member of the lie back and enjoy it school of dealing with climate change.  Romm is really angry because it is completely corrosive to actually starting to do anything.

1. Climate change is not happening.
 2. If it is happening, it’s not our fault.
 3. If it is our fault, it’s too late to stop it.
 4. If it’s too late to stop it, there’s still time to get famous on  it.

They are somewhere between 3 and 4.

There is no magic wand, there are a number of small steps we can take RIGHT NOW which at worst will stop things from getting worse, and at best will help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shellenberger and Nordhaus are charter member of the lie back and enjoy it school of dealing with climate change.  Romm is really angry because it is completely corrosive to actually starting to do anything.</p>
<p>1. Climate change is not happening.<br />
 2. If it is happening, it’s not our fault.<br />
 3. If it is our fault, it’s too late to stop it.<br />
 4. If it’s too late to stop it, there’s still time to get famous on  it.</p>
<p>They are somewhere between 3 and 4.</p>
<p>There is no magic wand, there are a number of small steps we can take RIGHT NOW which at worst will stop things from getting worse, and at best will help.</p>
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		<title>By: T B</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/06/05/somebody-help-joe-romm/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>T B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=1065#comment-481</guid>
		<description>What do you think of Shellenberger and Nordhaus?  It seems that you appreciate their perspective (in some way or ways, and to some degree)

I realize that you questioning Romm&#039;s mode of discourse is valid in itself -- regardless of what you might think of his targets -- but.... well, I&#039;m curious</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think of Shellenberger and Nordhaus?  It seems that you appreciate their perspective (in some way or ways, and to some degree)</p>
<p>I realize that you questioning Romm&#8217;s mode of discourse is valid in itself &#8212; regardless of what you might think of his targets &#8212; but&#8230;. well, I&#8217;m curious</p>
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