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	<title>Comments on: The Upside to Climategate</title>
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	<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/</link>
	<description>where nature and culture meet</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:51:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1167</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1167</guid>
		<description>Re #13:  Climate teabagging -- perfect!  I understand Orly Taitz may be available for a leadership role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #13:  Climate teabagging &#8212; perfect!  I understand Orly Taitz may be available for a leadership role.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Clizbe</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Clizbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1160</guid>
		<description>The momentum is with us now. We must organize and press the issue.

Who were the perpetrators of this fraud? From the lowliest, arrogant &quot;scientist&quot; at Penn State, right up to the White House, and the denizens of mansions in BelAire. 

Metaphorically speaking, heads will roll. 

Al Gore and his minions have jetted around the world, plotting how to destroy our economy and way of life, all the while demanding that we peons ride the bus or subway, and turn our thermostats down to 60. 

Their &quot;let them eat cake&quot; attitudes are eerily similar to previous elites. The communist elites enjoyed the same privileges and mouthed the same type of platitudes. Where are they now? 

No Consensus--No Warming (NOC-NOW)--Stop the Scam--Halt the IPCC

We have a quickly growing Yahoo Group (CO2 is Plant Food), and a petition (NOC-NOW) that simply spells out a Declaration of Climate Independence. 
We also have a Facebook Group: No Consensus--No Warming (NOC-NOW)--Stop the AGW Scam. 

The petition will be provided to the US Congress, the White House, the UN, the IPCC, the EU Commission, and other representative bodies involved in &quot;Climate Change&quot; policy deliberations. 

We will be heard. 

Please join the group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/co2isplantfood 

And sign the petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NOC_NOW/ 

Join Facebook group: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191580771509&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191580771509&lt;/a&gt;

We can stop this scam, together. 

Kent Clizbe
NOC-NOW
Stop the Scam—Halt the IPCC 
No Consensus—No Warming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The momentum is with us now. We must organize and press the issue.</p>
<p>Who were the perpetrators of this fraud? From the lowliest, arrogant &#8220;scientist&#8221; at Penn State, right up to the White House, and the denizens of mansions in BelAire. </p>
<p>Metaphorically speaking, heads will roll. </p>
<p>Al Gore and his minions have jetted around the world, plotting how to destroy our economy and way of life, all the while demanding that we peons ride the bus or subway, and turn our thermostats down to 60. </p>
<p>Their &#8220;let them eat cake&#8221; attitudes are eerily similar to previous elites. The communist elites enjoyed the same privileges and mouthed the same type of platitudes. Where are they now? </p>
<p>No Consensus&#8211;No Warming (NOC-NOW)&#8211;Stop the Scam&#8211;Halt the IPCC</p>
<p>We have a quickly growing Yahoo Group (CO2 is Plant Food), and a petition (NOC-NOW) that simply spells out a Declaration of Climate Independence.<br />
We also have a Facebook Group: No Consensus&#8211;No Warming (NOC-NOW)&#8211;Stop the AGW Scam. </p>
<p>The petition will be provided to the US Congress, the White House, the UN, the IPCC, the EU Commission, and other representative bodies involved in &#8220;Climate Change&#8221; policy deliberations. </p>
<p>We will be heard. </p>
<p>Please join the group: <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/co2isplantfood" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/co2isplantfood</a> </p>
<p>And sign the petition: <a href="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NOC_NOW/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NOC_NOW/</a> </p>
<p>Join Facebook group: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191580771509" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191580771509</a></p>
<p>We can stop this scam, together. </p>
<p>Kent Clizbe<br />
NOC-NOW<br />
Stop the Scam—Halt the IPCC<br />
No Consensus—No Warming</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Hays</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Hays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vigorous debate&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;

I don&#039;t see any real debate. The discussion going on isn&#039;t in anyway related to the realities of climate change. Let me list the things that are not being discussed.

There is a natural greenhouse effect. Without it the surface temperature would be roughly 33 C colder. 

Trace gases are an important part of this natural greenhouse effect.

Humans have made a sizeable increase in the concentration of several of these important trace gases such as C02, methane, CFCs and more.

This human increase has and will increase the greenhouse effect, and thus warm the surface.

A little bit warmer will have both gains and losses. Warmer will be mostly bad. Warm enough will be very bad.

No magic that is going to save us. No magic iris, for if there was, how could there have been ice ages? No magic energy technology is likely to pop out of a hat.

So where does this leave us? It is technically possible for a mixture of known non-carbon energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal) to replace most of the fossil fuel energy. This will be require eventually as the supply of fossil fuels is limited. Right now, this is politically impossible. Care to talk about why?

So where is the real debate? I don&#039;t see any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>Vigorous debate</b></i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see any real debate. The discussion going on isn&#8217;t in anyway related to the realities of climate change. Let me list the things that are not being discussed.</p>
<p>There is a natural greenhouse effect. Without it the surface temperature would be roughly 33 C colder. </p>
<p>Trace gases are an important part of this natural greenhouse effect.</p>
<p>Humans have made a sizeable increase in the concentration of several of these important trace gases such as C02, methane, CFCs and more.</p>
<p>This human increase has and will increase the greenhouse effect, and thus warm the surface.</p>
<p>A little bit warmer will have both gains and losses. Warmer will be mostly bad. Warm enough will be very bad.</p>
<p>No magic that is going to save us. No magic iris, for if there was, how could there have been ice ages? No magic energy technology is likely to pop out of a hat.</p>
<p>So where does this leave us? It is technically possible for a mixture of known non-carbon energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal) to replace most of the fossil fuel energy. This will be require eventually as the supply of fossil fuels is limited. Right now, this is politically impossible. Care to talk about why?</p>
<p>So where is the real debate? I don&#8217;t see any.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>Connolly is restrained by friendship and affection for some of those involved. His posts so far have been a peek into the tent of one tribe, but I doubt he&#039;ll directly confront the real issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Connolly is restrained by friendship and affection for some of those involved. His posts so far have been a peek into the tent of one tribe, but I doubt he&#8217;ll directly confront the real issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Collide-a-scape &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Collide-a-scape &#62;&#62; Nature&#8217;s Verdict</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1145</link>
		<dc:creator>Collide-a-scape &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Collide-a-scape &#62;&#62; Nature&#8217;s Verdict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1145</guid>
		<description>[...] of story? Not quite, as I&#8217;ve suggested here and here. More specifically, we don&#8217;t know the who (stole the emails), why, and how.  So far, press [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of story? Not quite, as I&#8217;ve suggested here and here. More specifically, we don&#8217;t know the who (stole the emails), why, and how.  So far, press [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1144</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 02:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1144</guid>
		<description>I can only agree with Bud&#039;s prediction that lazy journalists will continue to resort to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fallacy of the middle&lt;/a&gt;.  Re Mike Hulme, his agonizing has become tedious.

Oh, still no link to that &lt;em&gt;Nature&lt;/em&gt; editorial, Keith? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only agree with Bud&#8217;s prediction that lazy journalists will continue to resort to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation" rel="nofollow">fallacy of the middle</a>.  Re Mike Hulme, his agonizing has become tedious.</p>
<p>Oh, still no link to that <em>Nature</em> editorial, Keith? <img src='http://www.collide-a-scape.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1143</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1143</guid>
		<description>Fortunately Keith&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/full/462545a.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;natural superiors&lt;/a&gt; seem to have their heads screwed on straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately Keith&#8217;s <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/full/462545a.html" rel="nofollow">natural superiors</a> seem to have their heads screwed on straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel J. Bauer</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel J. Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1141</guid>
		<description>Bernie Madoff&#039;s fraud is a trifle by comparison.  Bernie fleeced a small group of well healed investors, the global warming cabal is seeking to transfer trillions of dollars from the United States using the fiction of global warming as an excuse. Somebody needs to go to jail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernie Madoff&#8217;s fraud is a trifle by comparison.  Bernie fleeced a small group of well healed investors, the global warming cabal is seeking to transfer trillions of dollars from the United States using the fiction of global warming as an excuse. Somebody needs to go to jail.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1140</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1140</guid>
		<description>Hot &lt;a href=&quot;http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/climategate_iii_the_mystery_of.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; for prior comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hot <a href="http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/climategate_iii_the_mystery_of.php" rel="nofollow">link</a> for prior comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bloom</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2009/12/02/the-upside-to-climategate/comment-page-1/#comment-1139</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2086#comment-1139</guid>
		<description>McArdle is an idiot, and she proves it beyond a doubt &lt;a href=&quot;http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/climategate_iii_the_mystery_of.php&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; when she claims that the supposed unreliability of dendrochronology means that &quot;we don&#039;t have any proxy for global temperature over most of the globe that goes back more than a few hundred years.&quot; 

In the main post, it doesn&#039;t occur to her that there might be a difference between the British and American FOI laws, noting that section II.42 of the British one provides an &quot;absolute&quot; exemption for confidential communications.  But heck, if I, a mere non-blogging non-journalist, could find that out, why not the &quot;world&#039;s tallest female econoblogger [who] delivers her opinions on economics, business, and other moral hazards&quot;?  (Er, ou est le science?)

The rest of her stuff is similarly crap, as is the rest of your post, Keith.  The photocopier &quot;thinking&quot; you exhibited here is exactly the sort that was responsible for the journalistic failure that led up to the Iraq War.  Fortunately much of the rest of the herd has had the sense to avoid it, at least so far.
      </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McArdle is an idiot, and she proves it beyond a doubt &lt;a href=&#8221;http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/climategate_iii_the_mystery_of.php&#8221;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; when she claims that the supposed unreliability of dendrochronology means that &#8220;we don&#8217;t have any proxy for global temperature over most of the globe that goes back more than a few hundred years.&#8221; </p>
<p>In the main post, it doesn&#8217;t occur to her that there might be a difference between the British and American FOI laws, noting that section II.42 of the British one provides an &#8220;absolute&#8221; exemption for confidential communications.  But heck, if I, a mere non-blogging non-journalist, could find that out, why not the &#8220;world&#8217;s tallest female econoblogger [who] delivers her opinions on economics, business, and other moral hazards&#8221;?  (Er, ou est le science?)</p>
<p>The rest of her stuff is similarly crap, as is the rest of your post, Keith.  The photocopier &#8220;thinking&#8221; you exhibited here is exactly the sort that was responsible for the journalistic failure that led up to the Iraq War.  Fortunately much of the rest of the herd has had the sense to avoid it, at least so far.<br />
      </p>
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