Comments on: The Trouble with Monuments http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/02/27/the-trouble-with-monuments/ where nature and culture meet Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:08:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: teofilo http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/02/27/the-trouble-with-monuments/comment-page-1/#comment-2059 teofilo Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:29:42 +0000 http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2524#comment-2059 Oh man, I have so much to say about this.  I'll put together a post at my place. Oh man, I have so much to say about this.  I’ll put together a post at my place.

]]> By: Keith Kloor http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/02/27/the-trouble-with-monuments/comment-page-1/#comment-2056 Keith Kloor Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:59:36 +0000 http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2524#comment-2056 Oso, Hmm, Hoboken. Talk about a place that's changed since Abbey was there. Thanks for sharing this perspective before you take off. Have a great trip. Look forward to hearing about it when you return. Oso,

Hmm, Hoboken. Talk about a place that’s changed since Abbey was there.

Thanks for sharing this perspective before you take off. Have a great trip. Look forward to hearing about it when you return.

]]> By: oso loco http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/02/27/the-trouble-with-monuments/comment-page-1/#comment-2055 oso loco Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:49:41 +0000 http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=2524#comment-2055 Keith – Good find.  Thank you.  There are a lot of connections in there for me.    I’ve read some Abbey, my wife has read nearly all of his stuff.  And we’ve been to many of the places that he wandered.  For one thing I lived in Hoboken for awhile.  Not by choice but because my parents lived there.  J   But, for “easterners”, we’ve also spent considerable time in the Southwest/Four Corners area. And talked with some of those who ran with Abbey “back in the day”.  And been to many of the places that he went – Perfect Kiva, for example. Gotta say that Coyote Gulch and the lower reaches of Grand Gulch are still places that get very little traffic, although certainly more than when Abbey was crawling over them.    As for the NM designation, I have mixed feelings.  Most of those lands are presently BLM lands.  Which to some degree renders moot the argument about “taking of private land”.  But, for those who haven’t discovered for themselves, NM designation is the first step toward either National Park or Wilderness status.  Which, of course, is the purpose of the environmental organizations like SUWA (which wants ALL of Southern Utah to be designated wilderness).  And I can empathize with the viewpoint, because I love the area and intend to spend much more time there.  But there’s also the downside to the argument that the environmental organizations either ignore or just don’t care about.     First is that any private land that’s so designated removes that land from the tax base - as much of southern Utah has already experienced.  Which is one of the reasons many of the locals are opposed.   Second is that either NP or Wilderness designation has become an invitation for greatly increased usage.  I know – the environmental organizations don’t want to believe or acknowledge that, but as a backpacker with over 20,000 miles under my boots and having spent time (meaning having hiked ) in well over 100 of the National Parks in the system (including ALL of those in Utah), I’ve seen the effects up close and personal.  It’s rarely a pretty sight.  The human race loves to love things to death.    And last, if the idea is to “protect” those places, then, at least initially, it will fail simply because “protection” requires money and manpower.  Neither of which is likely to magically appear in the present financial climate.  Nor in what I see as the probable future political climate (and that’s NOT related to the Democrat/Republican or liberal/conservative divide)   Having said all that, I should make it clear that, like Thompson, I also want those places to be there for my grandchildren – and their grandchildren.  But the problem is more complex than the advocates on either side see it.    Finally, I’m outta here.  In 48 hours I’ll be in Georgia starting seven weeks on the AT – in the snow and cold.  Then off to  SoCal for 5+ months on the PCT.  It’s gonna be interesting.  I’ll probably stop back here in April.  And no – we don’t update the website (<a href="http://spiriteaglehome.com/" rel="nofollow">http://spiriteaglehome.com/</a> ) while we’re on the trail.  That would be an intrusion on the experience.      Have a good year.            Keith –
Good find.  Thank you.  There are a lot of connections in there for me. 
 
I’ve read some Abbey, my wife has read nearly all of his stuff.  And we’ve been to many of the places that he wandered.  For one thing I lived in Hoboken for awhile.  Not by choice but because my parents lived there.  J
 
But, for “easterners”, we’ve also spent considerable time in the Southwest/Four Corners area. And talked with some of those who ran with Abbey “back in the day”.  And been to many of the places that he went – Perfect Kiva, for example. Gotta say that Coyote Gulch and the lower reaches of Grand Gulch are still places that get very little traffic, although certainly more than when Abbey was crawling over them. 
 
As for the NM designation, I have mixed feelings.  Most of those lands are presently BLM lands.  Which to some degree renders moot the argument about “taking of private land”.  But, for those who haven’t discovered for themselves, NM designation is the first step toward either National Park or Wilderness status.  Which, of course, is the purpose of the environmental organizations like SUWA (which wants ALL of Southern Utah to be designated wilderness).  And I can empathize with the viewpoint, because I love the area and intend to spend much more time there.  But there’s also the downside to the argument that the environmental organizations either ignore or just don’t care about.  
 
First is that any private land that’s so designated removes that land from the tax base – as much of southern Utah has already experienced.  Which is one of the reasons many of the locals are opposed.
 
Second is that either NP or Wilderness designation has become an invitation for greatly increased usage.  I know – the environmental organizations don’t want to believe or acknowledge that, but as a backpacker with over 20,000 miles under my boots and having spent time (meaning having hiked ) in well over 100 of the National Parks in the system (including ALL of those in Utah), I’ve seen the effects up close and personal.  It’s rarely a pretty sight.  The human race loves to love things to death. 
 
And last, if the idea is to “protect” those places, then, at least initially, it will fail simply because “protection” requires money and manpower.  Neither of which is likely to magically appear in the present financial climate.  Nor in what I see as the probable future political climate (and that’s NOT related to the Democrat/Republican or liberal/conservative divide)
 
Having said all that, I should make it clear that, like Thompson, I also want those places to be there for my grandchildren – and their grandchildren.  But the problem is more complex than the advocates on either side see it. 
 
Finally, I’m outta here.  In 48 hours I’ll be in Georgia starting seven weeks on the AT – in the snow and cold.  Then off to  SoCal for 5+ months on the PCT.  It’s gonna be interesting.  I’ll probably stop back here in April.  And no – we don’t update the website (http://spiriteaglehome.com/ ) while we’re on the trail.  That would be an intrusion on the experience.   
 
Have a good year. 
 
 
 
 
 

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