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	<title>Comments on: Who Started this Ruckus, Anyway?</title>
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	<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/</link>
	<description>where nature and culture meet</description>
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		<title>By: Phil C</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-19030</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 02:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-19030</guid>
		<description>RE: 203, 208 and others.
I&#039;ve read Dr. Mann&#039;s(et.al.) papers and have a couple of comments.  The graph (NH Land CPS) emphasis in the title(1999) on the variability and error ranges in the paleo record is disingenuous when the main conclusions are that the graph shows a paleo record of a robust, unprecendented warming in the late 20th century, despite &quot;additional strong caveats&quot;.  Even leaving in the late instrumental temperature record(which shouldn&#039;t be on the graph), the graph clearly shows that the paleo records have varied wildly over the last one and a half thousand years and the latest records are not exceptionally warm at all.  The discussion of huge variability in the records and the wide error range is glossed over, when it is supposedly the point of the paper.  My conclusion is that the paper was written to highlight the rise of the instrumental temperature record in the late &#039;90&#039;s as a precursor to follow on arguments.
 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: 203, 208 and others.<br />
I&#8217;ve read Dr. Mann&#8217;s(et.al.) papers and have a couple of comments.  The graph (NH Land CPS) emphasis in the title(1999) on the variability and error ranges in the paleo record is disingenuous when the main conclusions are that the graph shows a paleo record of a robust, unprecendented warming in the late 20th century, despite &#8220;additional strong caveats&#8221;.  Even leaving in the late instrumental temperature record(which shouldn&#8217;t be on the graph), the graph clearly shows that the paleo records have varied wildly over the last one and a half thousand years and the latest records are not exceptionally warm at all.  The discussion of huge variability in the records and the wide error range is glossed over, when it is supposedly the point of the paper.  My conclusion is that the paper was written to highlight the rise of the instrumental temperature record in the late &#8217;90&#8242;s as a precursor to follow on arguments.<br />
 <br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Psen</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-10909</link>
		<dc:creator>Psen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-10909</guid>
		<description>Re: Read_Me_Harry.txt
Nobody responded. It bugs me. So...

Don&#039;t the guys who claim to be great IT mavens know the simple golden rules about &quot;Other Peoples Code&quot;?
1). This code is teh suck!
2). What clown ordered the spaghetti?
3). IDIOT MONKEY!

...or the rules about &quot;Other Peoples Data&quot;
1). This like so blows!
2). What monkey ordered the baloney?
3). RAGE FEVER!!

Seriously skepticalistas, all I can see in it (and, yes I have read it) is a stream of consciousness from a man who has been given one of the worst jobs in the world: updating somebody else&#039;s code and data sets. Other people&#039;s 
code is always a foreign language. Heck, your own code from a year ago is a foreign language.

I can see him grappling with it, getting to grips with it, validating the output against the previous version, the expected ballpark values and the raw files, and also responding at one point to a guy outside their team who found some errors. In short, he is doing what he should be doing and the &quot;colourful stuff&quot; is just a guy being a bit of a drama queen in a personal aide memoir file. 

You do have a point about the data quality: but whose fault is that? My understanding of it is that they have datasets from weather stations all around the world which of course have all kinds of quirks and errors and inconsistent formats. It is a problem, and they are trying to deal with it.

But how bad is the data really? Does it make any *significant* difference to any results? There is no way of knowing for sure from this file. I take it that other teams (eg. NASA) have been doing the same thing independently 
and are getting results so similar that you can&#039;t put a dime between them. 

So how bad is the code really? Does it make any *significant* difference to any results? Again, there is no way of knowing for sure from this file. And, again, other teams have been doing the same thing independently and are getting results so similar that you can&#039;t put a dime between them. 

Maybe those of you with a backround in mission-critical software have a misapprehension: in your field, a software error can kill you. It is the big show stopper. That is not the case here and you should see this for what it is: a guy working on a beta version of a back-of-the-envelope calculation. If the result isn&#039;t in the ballpark at all, this will get picked up by rival skunkworks and scrapped. If it looks roughly OK, then on to a gamma version, then the epsilon version...etc in a continuous process of refinement, hoping
to make the error bars smaller until we have confidence.

In short, take stock: do you really think you have proved anything? Have you proved idiocy, incompetence or larceny beyond reasonable doubt?
Not to me, so I will stick with the civility of &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Read_Me_Harry.txt<br />
Nobody responded. It bugs me. So&#8230;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t the guys who claim to be great IT mavens know the simple golden rules about &#8220;Other Peoples Code&#8221;?<br />
1). This code is teh suck!<br />
2). What clown ordered the spaghetti?<br />
3). IDIOT MONKEY!</p>
<p>&#8230;or the rules about &#8220;Other Peoples Data&#8221;<br />
1). This like so blows!<br />
2). What monkey ordered the baloney?<br />
3). RAGE FEVER!!</p>
<p>Seriously skepticalistas, all I can see in it (and, yes I have read it) is a stream of consciousness from a man who has been given one of the worst jobs in the world: updating somebody else&#8217;s code and data sets. Other people&#8217;s<br />
code is always a foreign language. Heck, your own code from a year ago is a foreign language.</p>
<p>I can see him grappling with it, getting to grips with it, validating the output against the previous version, the expected ballpark values and the raw files, and also responding at one point to a guy outside their team who found some errors. In short, he is doing what he should be doing and the &#8220;colourful stuff&#8221; is just a guy being a bit of a drama queen in a personal aide memoir file. </p>
<p>You do have a point about the data quality: but whose fault is that? My understanding of it is that they have datasets from weather stations all around the world which of course have all kinds of quirks and errors and inconsistent formats. It is a problem, and they are trying to deal with it.</p>
<p>But how bad is the data really? Does it make any *significant* difference to any results? There is no way of knowing for sure from this file. I take it that other teams (eg. NASA) have been doing the same thing independently<br />
and are getting results so similar that you can&#8217;t put a dime between them. </p>
<p>So how bad is the code really? Does it make any *significant* difference to any results? Again, there is no way of knowing for sure from this file. And, again, other teams have been doing the same thing independently and are getting results so similar that you can&#8217;t put a dime between them. </p>
<p>Maybe those of you with a backround in mission-critical software have a misapprehension: in your field, a software error can kill you. It is the big show stopper. That is not the case here and you should see this for what it is: a guy working on a beta version of a back-of-the-envelope calculation. If the result isn&#8217;t in the ballpark at all, this will get picked up by rival skunkworks and scrapped. If it looks roughly OK, then on to a gamma version, then the epsilon version&#8230;etc in a continuous process of refinement, hoping<br />
to make the error bars smaller until we have confidence.</p>
<p>In short, take stock: do you really think you have proved anything? Have you proved idiocy, incompetence or larceny beyond reasonable doubt?<br />
Not to me, so I will stick with the civility of &#8220;innocent until proven guilty&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9630</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 07:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9630</guid>
		<description>dhogaza, since &#039;anon&#039; claims to &quot;have known  and collaborated with [you] since the late 1990s on open source software&quot; perhaps that narrows down who it is?
 
Whoever it is, it seems at once angry, vengeful, afraid, and  incoherent.   Not a good choice for collaborator in science, and I can&#039;t imagine IT is much different.
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dhogaza, since &#8216;anon&#8217; claims to &#8220;have known  and collaborated with [you] since the late 1990s on open source software&#8221; perhaps that narrows down who it is?<br />
 <br />
Whoever it is, it seems at once angry, vengeful, afraid, and  incoherent.   Not a good choice for collaborator in science, and I can&#8217;t imagine IT is much different.<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9432</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9432</guid>
		<description>Thanks! My poor linking skills, you would think I&#039;d have learned by now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! My poor linking skills, you would think I&#8217;d have learned by now.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Kloor</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9428</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Kloor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9428</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice one, Josh. The cartoon is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cartoonsbyjosh.com/warmista_scr.jpg&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, for those who want to link right to it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one, Josh. The cartoon is <a href="http://www.cartoonsbyjosh.com/warmista_scr.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for those who want to link right to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9426</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9426</guid>
		<description>
The word &#039;Warmista&#039; sounds like barista to me (which would be my all time favourite job) and so has an affectionate tone, and much nicer than &#039;warmist&#039; or &#039;alarmist&#039;.
So I did this cartoon http://www.cartoonsbyjosh.com/warmista_scr.jpg
So do let me know if I have got this wrong.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word &#8216;Warmista&#8217; sounds like barista to me (which would be my all time favourite job) and so has an affectionate tone, and much nicer than &#8216;warmist&#8217; or &#8216;alarmist&#8217;.<br />
So I did this cartoon http://www.cartoonsbyjosh.com/warmista_scr.jpg<br />
So do let me know if I have got this wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: dhogaza</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9307</link>
		<dc:creator>dhogaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9307</guid>
		<description>&quot;I often comment at work, which depending on how you read the policies, could get me fired, regardless of how well I do my actual job&quot;


And yet, you&#039;re willing to post my real name ... without regard to possible consequences for my own ability to get work.


I think you need a refresher course in ethics.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I often comment at work, which depending on how you read the policies, could get me fired, regardless of how well I do my actual job&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet, you&#8217;re willing to post my real name &#8230; without regard to possible consequences for my own ability to get work.</p>
<p>I think you need a refresher course in ethics.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9251</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 02:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9251</guid>
		<description>&quot;My guess it that “google anon”, unlike “dhogaza”, isn’t going to point to your real name … I’m quite sure that unlike me, you really *are* trying to hide your identity.

Why?&quot;
I often comment at work, which depending on how you read the policies, could get me fired, regardless of how well I do my actual job.  I work in a small town too, I&#039;d prefer not to have to find a new job that doesn&#039;t exist. And yet, I have to admit to a loss if I were unable to read the blogs about one of the most important scientific and policy issues of the day.
So in that sense, I am nowhere near the position of Josh Halpern, who apparently is tenured, and often funded by NASA and who still finds it necessary to blog anonymously.  Or of a Gavin Schmidt who is directly funded by NASA or many of the tenured professors who finds it easy to smear people or modify comments that could easily lose their jobs.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My guess it that “google anon”, unlike “dhogaza”, isn’t going to point to your real name … I’m quite sure that unlike me, you really *are* trying to hide your identity.</p>
<p>Why?&#8221;<br />
I often comment at work, which depending on how you read the policies, could get me fired, regardless of how well I do my actual job.  I work in a small town too, I&#8217;d prefer not to have to find a new job that doesn&#8217;t exist. And yet, I have to admit to a loss if I were unable to read the blogs about one of the most important scientific and policy issues of the day.<br />
So in that sense, I am nowhere near the position of Josh Halpern, who apparently is tenured, and often funded by NASA and who still finds it necessary to blog anonymously.  Or of a Gavin Schmidt who is directly funded by NASA or many of the tenured professors who finds it easy to smear people or modify comments that could easily lose their jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9250</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 02:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9250</guid>
		<description>&quot;And I’ve never claimed to be a climate scientist.  Oh, and if you believe that being a layman makes me a “a complete know nothing layman on climate science”, then I imagine you feel the same about, oh, McIntyre, another layman with an undergraduate degree in mathematics?


Actually Don, I have the same respect for you as amateur climate scientist as I do for McIntyre.  And I am glad to see you acknowledge that he is at least as capable as you if not more so. Perhaps you can remind people at RC of that and that all of these amateur scientists should be respected, not disrespected and dehumanized.
And frankly, I think I&#039;m helping you.  I verified that you are considered an expert database guy and well known in photog and birding circles, and that anything you say regarding IT should be well respected.  That includes climategate issues and issues regarding data retention and possibly climate models.
But you are annoying and in the wrong when it comes to describing scientists in fields you are not expert in as having crossed to the darkside, or speculating about their intellectual honesty.
And as you point out, it&#039;s trivial to know you&#039;re Don Baccus, and that Eli is Josh Halpern (and on that account, I gather Halpern outed, in a way you never were.)  But at any rate, I have no idea why you think I have somehow outed you, or complain that I do not use your nom-de-net when I am using widely known information.
I&#039;m not the one attacking other people and saying they are dishonest or not qualified to speak.  I am simply here saying who you are, what you are qualified as an expert in, and telling you your behavior is lousy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And I’ve never claimed to be a climate scientist.  Oh, and if you believe that being a layman makes me a “a complete know nothing layman on climate science”, then I imagine you feel the same about, oh, McIntyre, another layman with an undergraduate degree in mathematics?</p>
<p>Actually Don, I have the same respect for you as amateur climate scientist as I do for McIntyre.  And I am glad to see you acknowledge that he is at least as capable as you if not more so. Perhaps you can remind people at RC of that and that all of these amateur scientists should be respected, not disrespected and dehumanized.<br />
And frankly, I think I&#8217;m helping you.  I verified that you are considered an expert database guy and well known in photog and birding circles, and that anything you say regarding IT should be well respected.  That includes climategate issues and issues regarding data retention and possibly climate models.<br />
But you are annoying and in the wrong when it comes to describing scientists in fields you are not expert in as having crossed to the darkside, or speculating about their intellectual honesty.<br />
And as you point out, it&#8217;s trivial to know you&#8217;re Don Baccus, and that Eli is Josh Halpern (and on that account, I gather Halpern outed, in a way you never were.)  But at any rate, I have no idea why you think I have somehow outed you, or complain that I do not use your nom-de-net when I am using widely known information.<br />
I&#8217;m not the one attacking other people and saying they are dishonest or not qualified to speak.  I am simply here saying who you are, what you are qualified as an expert in, and telling you your behavior is lousy.</p>
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		<title>By: dhogaza</title>
		<link>http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2010/06/18/who-started-this-ruckus-anyway/comment-page-9/#comment-9094</link>
		<dc:creator>dhogaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 22:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collide-a-scape.com/?p=3129#comment-9094</guid>
		<description>&quot;This sort of thing vexes me. Personally, I’m not a fan of anonymity, but I recognize that some people have legitimate issues for remaining anonymous. That said, it seems obvious to me that anonymity lends itself to (some) people being impolite at best and slanderous at worst.&quot;


If I were trying to remain anonymous I wouldn&#039;t use a handle that is also my e-mail address, and that appears in each and every photo caption on my website.


I&#039;ve been using the &quot;dhogaza&quot; handle since the mid-1990s because I happen to like it.  I&#039;ve never made a secret of my real name.  Back in the days when Alta Vista ruled the search engine world, typing in &quot;nature photography&quot; listed me as the second hit.   Name, e-mail handle, if you looked hard enough, home address and phone number (these are no longer online, the net is not as friendly and cozy as it used to be).


And I&#039;ve never claimed to be a climate scientist.  Oh, and if you believe that being a layman makes me a &quot;a complete know nothing layman on climate science&quot;, then I imagine you feel the same about, oh, McIntyre, another layman with an undergraduate degree in mathematics?


So, anon, you claim a personal connection with me, and have &quot;outed&quot; Josh Halpern in your note, too (another &quot;secret&quot; kept in the open, but apparently it makes you feel good to give his name).


What&#039;s your name?  Why are you hiding, if you object to someone like me using a handle when posting?


My guess it that &quot;google anon&quot;, unlike &quot;dhogaza&quot;, isn&#039;t going to point to your real name ... I&#039;m quite sure that unlike me, you really *are* trying to hide your identity.


Why?





</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This sort of thing vexes me. Personally, I’m not a fan of anonymity, but I recognize that some people have legitimate issues for remaining anonymous. That said, it seems obvious to me that anonymity lends itself to (some) people being impolite at best and slanderous at worst.&#8221;</p>
<p>If I were trying to remain anonymous I wouldn&#8217;t use a handle that is also my e-mail address, and that appears in each and every photo caption on my website.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been using the &#8220;dhogaza&#8221; handle since the mid-1990s because I happen to like it.  I&#8217;ve never made a secret of my real name.  Back in the days when Alta Vista ruled the search engine world, typing in &#8220;nature photography&#8221; listed me as the second hit.   Name, e-mail handle, if you looked hard enough, home address and phone number (these are no longer online, the net is not as friendly and cozy as it used to be).</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ve never claimed to be a climate scientist.  Oh, and if you believe that being a layman makes me a &#8220;a complete know nothing layman on climate science&#8221;, then I imagine you feel the same about, oh, McIntyre, another layman with an undergraduate degree in mathematics?</p>
<p>So, anon, you claim a personal connection with me, and have &#8220;outed&#8221; Josh Halpern in your note, too (another &#8220;secret&#8221; kept in the open, but apparently it makes you feel good to give his name).</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your name?  Why are you hiding, if you object to someone like me using a handle when posting?</p>
<p>My guess it that &#8220;google anon&#8221;, unlike &#8220;dhogaza&#8221;, isn&#8217;t going to point to your real name &#8230; I&#8217;m quite sure that unlike me, you really *are* trying to hide your identity.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
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